Duverné struggled when he first came to the United States from Haiti while speaking little English. He always had an entrepreneurial spirit and a desire to keep others safe. Learn how he combined these impulses into Windwalker Group, a cybersecurity company that employs more than 100 people. We also have a full-length video interview here.
Transcript
Denzil Mohammed: JobMakers is a weekly podcast produced by Pioneer Institute and The Immigrant Learning Center. I’m Denzil Mohammed, and I’ll be talking with risk takers, immigrants who create new products, services, and jobs in New England and across the United States, building on the entrepreneurial spirit that led them to America in the first place. Join us every Thursday at noon. The United States is a land of opportunity. No matter where in the world you come from, there’s opportunity for better here. It’s what continues to draw brave young risk takers from every since immigrants want a shot in life. The growth of their experience here would be exponentially greater than if they weren’t. This is the case for Herby Duverné, Principal and CEO of Windwalker. Windwalker is a physical and cybersecurity firm that offers training and professional services headquartered in Boston with offices in Tysons Corner, Virginia. It was bought by Mr. Duverné’s previous company, Taino Consulting Group, which he founded in 2009, and which by 2017 had experienced growth of 398 percent. Herby Duverné was born in Haiti, the poorest country in the hemisphere. His mother was illiterate, his father a cab driver. Mr. Duverné knew no English, bagged groceries, and yet ended up with a master’s degree and a mandate to pave the way for his children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren. Thank you for joining us today, Herby Duverné. So glad to have you on JobMakers. In 30 seconds, tell me about your services, what you do.
Herby Duverné: So we are a company that’s provided services to a lot of companies, not just commercial, but also federal government too. We like to describe it as, we get clients ready, we get them to be ready for what’s next. We get them to be ready for the unknown. And the way to do that is through training, risk assessment, through security. And we provide them professional services support.
Denzil Mohammed: And in 30 seconds, give us the vision for your company. And I think you’ve already begun actualizing a new stage of your vision, right?
Herby Duverné: Yes. Our vision of our company is to be the best in the space that we are in right now. We want to be one of the premier organizations where we focus on not just clients, but also focus on our people, because at the end of the day, we realize the company will not be where it is if it wasn’t for its people. So we want to focus on our customers, but also want to focus on our people. We want to create an atmosphere, an environment, so not only our clients get ready, but also our employees thrive as well within the same environment.
Denzil Mohammed: Maybe in about 60 seconds or so guide us through the timeline of your company.
Herby Duverné: So right around 2016, we looked at our companies and where could we get more market share. What else should we do? How different can we do that? But also I’m in a company that I’m building something long term. So I’m not in it for one day, one week. I’m in it for a long time. So given these parameters, I realized that what I need to do is to figure out exactly, how do I want to grow this business? Do I keep spending money on growing internally by just having our people knock on doors and get more clients? I think we realize there’s time spent for that. Or do I go out there and acquire another company that’s already ahead of it. And then put that services and that company on top of what we do and then make it a new company. We think where the market was really strong for us is training. Top CEOs, they will tell you training and development is one of the important pieces in the business. So I realize that it’s important for me to get there. I realized training was so important. So when we were looking at for acquisition, we’re looking at something not only to increase our revenue, but something to give us a better angle from a different market, which is training market. So that’s what we did. So we went out there, we looked for companies, and we found Windwalker Corp. At that time which we merged and become Windwalker Group. So we found this firm that was doing similar revenue like us. And we merged them together to make a Windwalker Group where we provide all the different services, not just from the old company, but also for the new company. The other advantage for us as well for Windwalker Corp., Windwalker Corp. had been doing training for 25 years. And their clients include big names, like IBM, Amtrak, Department of Defense, you name them. So we really felt that it would’ve take us a long time to build that capabilities. Purchasing this company would have been a better move. And that’s what we did.
Denzil Mohammed: Okay, I’m gonna talk a little bit more about your company later on, but I want to focus in on you. You spent the first 20 years of your life in your homeland of Haiti. Few people in the U.S. know, or can even imagine, what life is like there. What was life like growing up in Haiti?
Herby Duverné: Life was very tough growing up in Haiti. I mean, that’s the thing. There’s two things I always say about my 20 years in Haiti. One is, it was a very tough life in term of, from an economy perspective. But at the same time, It was a very loving environment, because not only I had my mother, single mom, who loved me and loved my sister and did everything she could possibly do, and protect us and do everything that most parents do for the kids. My mom was always that. And the other thing also too, which is unbelievable for that notion is my mother, one of the things raising us for 20 years, I always felt she put us first. She always put us first. I mean it was, that was just the way it is. She is, I live, I mean in my mom’s mindset, I live for my kids. I want my kids to be the best they can be. Even though the environment where we are from a economy perspective was not good at all. I mean, we were very poor. We live in one room house, I mean not even house. We live in one room with my sister, myself and my mom. My mom worked in a factory from six days a week from 7:00 AM to 7:00 PM. She will make, at the time, maybe a dollar a day, for the work she was doing. She was making aluminum bowl. You know, we were lucky to eat three times a day. We usually eat, at least we’ll have a good meal once a day. Um, so all the basic stuff that we take for granted, refrigerator, I didn’t have that. None of those things ‘cause you are in one room house. So there is no refrigerator. There is no oven. You go out there with charcoals and those stuff, that’s how you cook. Um, it was a rough life. It was a tough life. And I never had a job, not because I didn’t want to work. It’s because there was no job for me. Unemployment in Haiti is about 60 percent plus. For the 20 years, at least as I was getting older, I felt that there was gonna be no hope for me. You know it wasn’t a place that I feel that I can envision what I can be next, tomorrow. There was none of that. So that was my life in Haiti until my dad who’s been coming, trying hard somehow to get a visa and come to the U.S., and was able to get his green card and was able to become a U.S. citizen. And was able to send paper to allow me to come on a residence when I was 20 years old.
Denzil Mohammed: And he was a cab driver.
Herby Duverné: That’s correct. How did y’all, you did your homework. I like that.
Denzil Mohammed: What happened when you moved there? You moved to New York City, right?
Herby Duverné: I moved to New York City. So my dad’s been a cab driver for a long time. December 26th, 1989. That’s the time that I came here, and I get right into New York City with my big envelope. This is when you know you’re gonna have … that’s the envelope they give you to get your green card. You just get your big envelope. Obviously you realize this place is cold. My dad bought me a jacket and I, I still feel cold and, and seen smoke coming out everywhere, you know. So, it was a very interesting moment, I will say. Some of the family members, we were all in one place supporting each, get each other for a walk, but more importantly, try to support each other on make sure they know where to get some English as a second language, which I did when I was in Brooklyn, New York. I went to York College in Queens, and get English as a second language. So he [dad] say, okay, and enroll here, try to do that. But, you know, you start working. I mean, that’s just the way it is for immigrant. So we start working, you know, getting a job and, and do different things. It doesn’t matter. You just try to make money. In 1991, we decided to move to Boston. And the idea of moving to Boston was my dad felt that Boston has better job. More importantly, Boston was calmer than Brooklyn, New York. So it’s a way for me to make sure that I don’t get into trouble. I felt that the moment I get in the U.S., my life would not be worse than it was in Haiti.
Denzil Mohammed: And one of the ways in which it got better for you was through education.
Herby Duverné: Absolutely.
Denzil Mohammed: That your mother could not read and write.
Herby Duverné: That’s correct.
Denzil Mohammed: She emphasized education. And, as you said, whenever you could go to school, could afford to go to school you went in Haiti.
Herby Duverné: Yes, absolutely.
Denzil Mohammed: What was your educational trajectory in the U.S. and what was also going on in your life at that time in terms of jobs and whatnot?
Herby Duverné: When I move to Boston, I took more English as a second language at Bunker Hill Community College. And I keep going to school there. Once I take enough English as a second language, I try to take other courses at Bunker Hill Community College. I also realize I gotta go somewhere else. So I apply at Northeastern and other colleges around here and got accepted at Northeastern. I started in 1993, a year later I have my daughter, and then now I’m a father 20 something years old, like 24, 25 or so, living in this country. I say, I gotta take care of my daughter. I also have to go to school. I gotta do something. I’ve done any type of job you can think of to support me and support my daughter at the time. I have driven a cab in Cambridge for a number of years, where I know it was easier for me. I’d do it, you know, 12 hours, Friday, Saturday and Sunday so I can do a good amount of money because it was hard. Um, before that I have gotten job cleaning bathroom at Harvard University. Again, those hours were part-time with good benefit at the time and good insurance at the time. And, you know, you can be there, but there were like 20 something hours. I bagged at the grocery place, put food in bags for people. So I tried to do different jobs to combine so I could go during that time take care of my daughter and go to school, and then graduate from school, graduate from college in 1998. Got a bachelor degree in 1998 in criminal justice. And part of the criminal justice is, I always wanted to have working in security, but I didn’t want to be a police officer. I wanted to be someone that walked in protecting, more like prevent something from happening before it happened. I sort of have this sort of mindset that was more attractive to me than taking, being a cop, which is a very reactive kind of job. Someone did something, you’re gonna, this is the law to arrest them or not. So that’s what I did. So I went on and to do that and throughout Northeastern I got the opportunity about year, my third years at Northeastern to do a co-op where you, you stop working, you get a job. I mean, they’ll help you get a job to a certain [site] aligned to your degree. And that’s what I did. My co-op was at CVS. I did a co-op at CVS, and I did so well as a loss prevention personnel just watching people stealing at the store, and also doing all those different backroom processes for the store. And then when I graduate and my boss at the time say, “Hey, when you graduate, we’ll make sure you get a job.” So I got a job and I become a regional loss prevention manager. When I graduate from college, I become a regional person that’s not only training other people how to become a loss prevention, but also I was doin’ loss prevention for more than one stores. I decided that I wanted to have a master’s degree, something different at the next level of degree for my career. I’ve decided everything that I’m reading about people that’s done corporate security, they had master’s degree in all the level of degree. So I decided to do that. So I went in back and then enrolled at Northeastern again, and get a master’s degree in criminal justice administration, which is more focused on security and so forth. And I gotta tell you the moment I graduated from school, from college, I felt that my life was taking off. I think that’s probably for the first time, Denzil, that I felt that I was in control.
Denzil Mohammed: During any of this time, did you feel as though you were gonna be your own boss at some point?
Herby Duverné: It’s funny, after I graduated I created a company, right after graduation, created a company, even though I got a job, but I created a side company to do investigation for people, for lawyers and everything else. And I even went on and got my detective license in the state to become a P.I., you know, private investigator. So I will stay focused on my regular job, but I always keep thinking back and forth. I got people that will call me throughout my other job, “Hey, do you wanna do X, Y and Z for us? Do you wanna do this?” So every so often I will get a little piece of it. And then it shut down. So I always have this in my heart, I always feel that I can do my own thing.
Denzil Mohammed: And it was not because your parents were entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs ran in your family. You got education, you got a diploma in your hand and it gave you a certain confidence and a certain vision, right?
Herby Duverné: But the idea of being an entrepreneurs, yes. It was not something that my family was doing or I learned from a uncle. No, it was like, my education made me realize I can do those kind of things. I can provide that service to other people. There’s a market for what I do.
Denzil Mohammed: That market, Herby Duverné soon would conquer. After five years leading security at Logan International Airport, rising to the highest rank he could, he and some partners founded Taino Consulting Group in Boston in 2009, a security risk management firm named after one of the indigenous peoples of his homeland Haiti. The firm experienced such tremendous growth that Mr. Duverné won The Immigrant Learning Center’s Immigrant Entrepreneur Award for Business Growth in 2016 among many other accolades. Then Taino purchased Windwalker and expanded their portfolio to training and their footprint to nine states.
Denzil Mohammed: Is there anything special about Boston? It’s home to 12 of the cybersecurity 150 I saw in Cybercrime Magazine. Was there anything particularly notable about Boston headquartering your company here?
Herby Duverné: Absolutely, oh yes. I also believe that among all the other things that I’ve told you, what made me become an entrepreneur, this environment Boston is a very attractive environment for new thinking, for innovation, because there’s all these universities and schools all around us, from Harvard to MIT to BU, Northeastern, you name them. And the Bunker Hills and all the other schools out there. So I always feel that it’s an environment you always in a learning movement, right? You always want to learn. You always want to see the possibility. I feel that sometime learning help you see the possibility, right? What’s possible. Once I learn something I think, wow, I can’t believe it, I can do this. I can’t believe it that I can achieve this one. So that’s the mindset. I think Boston because it’s such a learning full environment that we want our people to sort of go out of your comfort zone. And also it’s easier to have a conversation about being an entrepreneur in Boston probably than in most other states. Because this is what people do. Young people get together, they went to school and partner with each other and say, “Let’s do this, let’s create that.” You know that’s what people do. So I felt that Boston is a very learning rich environment, that’s really allowed me and also many people to excel and do business. And even though we may not have all the answers, we feel that we have the confidence we can make it work.
Denzil Mohammed: And bring us into this moment of public health crisis and pandemic. Has COVID driven any additional cybersecurity needs and issues for Windwalker’s clients? And give us your oracle view of what physical and cybersecurity is gonna look like after COVID.
Herby Duverné: So it’s interesting you’re saying that. Cybersecurity and more like technology was five, 10 years ago was already starting to go in a different direction. You know, we’re talking about AI. This is really the way things are going. This is basically where machine learning’s gonna do a lot of work, gonna do unbelievable things, if we train them to do those kind of thing. You know, you can call a call center right now, and you think you’re talking to a person but you’re talking to a machine. This is where technology with all the cybersecurity risks and everything else associated with it, gonna go. Anyway with COVID, I think it really accelerated those kind of mindset. Business people always knew that the biggest asset are the people, but didn’t believe how big that asset was until they have a problem getting those people. A problem, oh geez, if I’m a restaurant, if I’m a call center, oh, geez, this person cannot come to work. Because, you know, I think that’s gonna accelerate that mindset, you know, of people, companies gonna think about how do I do the work, the services, how do I provide services X with a way that I rely less on people, more on machine. That’s gonna happen. There’s also opportunity for people to even do better because at the end of the day, machine cannot do everything. Machine will do a lot of things, but not everything. So you will need people to be trained, people to really understand how we can work with machine to do the stuff machine needs to do, either fix machine to do the things machine has to do, all this kind of thing. So that’s part one on the security side. The other thing also too, my other part of my company is a training business. The training business is completely changed upside down, even though, again, even though, 15, 20 years everybody knew that it’s better, it’s more advantageous to have people learn in a way that’s different, not just being in a classroom. People know that. Companies were starting to put video content out there to train people from a video platform perspective. Even though they do that, not every company were doing that. Even everybody’s like, oh, I can see the light, but not every companies do that. I think COVID really make companies realize, holy cow, I cannot train these people. I gotta create a way to have content online. We are working right now, currently with a lot of clients that’s been doing classroom training organization. That’s been doing classroom training and now starting to ask us to do content, to develop content for them as opposed to learning in a classroom. So those starting to happen now. So these are the thing that I see happening from not just from a security perspective, but also from the training perspective.
Denzil Mohammed: So you talk about a particular mindset, and I want to bring it back to something you brought up just before we started actually talking, which was a view and a vision of America and changing your mindset in order to really achieve something and be entrepreneurial and do something great and extra. I would venture to say that you never imagined that you would be in a position where spending so much time giving back to America for all the opportunity that it gave you. And I just want to run through a list: the Big Brothers and Big Sisters of Massachusetts Bay, Children’s Trust, Haiti Venture Impact Partners, Haiti Development Institute, Rise Together LLC, the Massachusetts Commission on Judicial Conduct, appointed by Governor Baker. In our last minute, you know, what does it mean to give back and why do you do it?
Herby Duverné: Wow. I think that’s a very interesting question for me ’cause I feel that when I came to this country I quickly realized, not immediately actually, let me step back. When I came to America along the journey I realized that this is a country for all. At some point it clicked for me. When I came here, to be fair, it didn’t click. When I came here I feel like, well, I’m coming to a country, right. It wasn’t like I’m coming to a country, I’m gonna make it my own. Along the line as I have kids, as I get job, as I work, as I went to school, as I created a professional life, I realized this is our America. This is not some people, it’s our America. If it is our America we need to do whatever it takes to make it a place that we feel that we are invested in … ’cause this is our own. And that’s how I look at it. I look at my involvement in all these organizations, nonprofit and business alike. It’s to me saying like this is my country. If I own a house, you will want to take care of it. You wanna make sure that … If the barricade is in front of the house falling apart you want to fix that. If the water, if the shower is not working you want to make it better. So I feel that I have ownership in this county as an American. I have ownership in this country because normally I get a lot from this country but I also provide a lot. I provide my work, my blood, you know, in terms of working in this county. And I realize that it is our country. So I always have this mindset. So that’s sort of the switch that came to me, like, this is our country we gotta do whatever it takes to invest in it. So I always look at this as a way for me to invest. And why am I doing that? I’m doing that because I believe this country without a doubt, with the three kids that I have and a wife and family, it’s my country for the next hundreds of generations coming down the line, you know. I mean it’s gonna be at some point two hundred years down the line, you know, people are gonna remember there was a Herby that two hundred years ago, that sort of lineage to that person, to this family member.
Denzil Mohammed: This is why I think it was so appropriate that you named your business Taino Consulting Group, going back to the indigenous peoples. You’re talking about generations to follow you. And that’s exactly what I think is gonna happen.
Herby Duverné: We gotta do that. Because at the end of the day we gotta see that. And I’ve seen the connection with my kids whose gonna have their own kids, their own great grandkids, significant others, whatever. They’re gonna be part of this America. So if I have to invest in something that I know my lineage and my family’s gonna be a member of, not doing that is crazy to me, not participating in it, it’s crazy to me, you know. And that’s how I see this country. That’s how I see my environment, as a place where, when I’m no longer around I will have people that are here because of me. Therefore, whatever I have to do during my time to make it a perfect union for them, to work hard, to make this country as welcoming as it possibly can be, I’m gonna do that.
Denzil Mohammed: Thank you very much, Herby Duverné, CEO of Windwalker Group. This was an excellent conversation and I’m so glad we got a chance to talk to you.
Herby Duverné: A pleasure. Thank you so much, Denzil. Thank you for your time.
Denzil Mohammed: So happy that you joined us for this week’s inspiring story of another immigrant entrepreneur. If you like what you’re hearing, share JobMakers on Twitter @pioneerboston and @ILCTR and on Facebook @pioneerinstitute and @immigrantlearningcenter. Join us again next Thursday at noon. I’m Denzil Mohammed. And thank you for listening to JobMakers.