As an academic with a focus in refugee studies, Jaisang Sun has a unique perspective on today’s immigration conversation. Sun discusses the costs and significant benefits of our current refugee program, highlighting how refugees contribute financially and strengthen our communities. Listen to hear his perspective on the new influx of Afghan refugees that the United States is currently welcoming.
Transcript
Denzil Mohammed: I’m Denzil Mohammed, and this is JobMakers.
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Denzil Mohammed: I’m sure you have an opinion on refugees, but how much do you actually know about them? What do you really know about the process of identifying, screening and resettling people from foreign lands who cannot go back home? For Jaisang Sun, research associate at The Immigrant Learning Center’s Public Education Institute, the co-host of this podcast, correcting misinformation and disinformation about refugees is paramount, especially today with the potential for an influx of refugees who assisted our special forces in Afghanistan and the consequent public discourse around it. Jaisang, or Jai, is completing his doctoral degree at Syracuse University with research on the deportation of refugees from the U.S. His interests include transnational migration, diasporic nationalism, multiculturalism and refugee studies. Jai clears the air for us on refugees and the resettlement program, including costs and benefits to us. And more importantly, he profiles just who refugees are, people just like you and me, except displaced and persecuted, with nowhere to go. Something many of us will never experience, as you’ll discover in this week’s JobMakers.
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Denzil Mohammed: Jaisang Sun, research associate at The Immigrant Learning Center’s Public Education Institute, welcome to JobMakers!
Jaisang Sun: Thank you. Glad to be here.
Denzil Mohammed: So refugees, of course, have been in the news quite a lot recently. And your research at Syracuse has focused on refugees, and the work you do as a research associate at The Immigrant Learning Center’s Public Education Institute looks at immigration broadly, including data and stories of refugees. Can you define who a refugee is and how that’s distinct from an immigrant?
Jaisang Sun: Sure. A refugee can be defined as a person outside his or her country of nationality who is unable or unwilling to return to the country of origin or nationality because of persecution or a well-founded fear of persecution on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group or a political opinion.
Denzil Mohammed: So it’s almost someone who’s pushed out of their home country, right?
Jaisang Sun: Absolutely. Forcefully displaced.
Denzil Mohammed: And that’s really the distinction for an immigrant, which is someone who generally chooses to move for some reason.
Jaisang Sun: Yes. A lot of people attribute that agency to regular migrants, whereas refugees would lack such agency to move about freely.
Denzil Mohammed: So what kind of person is a refugee? What kind of qualities do you think they have, or characteristics? What do they bring with them?
Jaisang Sun: Refugees are just like you and me. They are hard-working people, they are people with dreams and passion and goals, people who pursue happiness in their lives.
Denzil Mohammed: But the kind of person who is forced to move to another place. And let’s be clear, that move is not an easy move, right? It’s not as though they just get on a plane and land in Buffalo and they start a new life. Oftentimes they are forced to move to a neighboring country. They are in refugee camps, sometimes for years on end. The stories of refugees from Vietnam who had to flee in the dead of night, be caught by pirates, be caught by security, thrown in jail. What are some of the journeys like?
Jaisang Sun: I am not a refugee myself, so these are anecdotal evidences and stories that I have heard from others. But yes, most of refugees’ journeys to safe resettlement have been very dangerous, treacherous, and they were met with force many times. And the fact that they were displaced from home, I think it presents enough challenge for anyone, but to make that journey to safety is … I can’t even begin to fathom how difficult it may be.
Denzil Mohammed: And you bring up two important things. One is that they’re just like you and me. They just want to lead regular lives, they want happiness, they have dreams, they have passions. But they’ve also been through something that is life-changing, something that is dangerous, something that’s treacherous, life–risking. And so I think of some of the refugees that I know personally, you know, the person who cuts my hair, she tried to flee Vietnam 10 times as a teenager before she was actually successful. Each time she tried, she was thrown in jail. I think of Hong Tran who was interviewed for this podcast several months ago, who in the process of fleeing Vietnam, they were attacked by pirates and his mother and baby sister were killed. And then they have to go on in these new countries to learn a new language, learn a new culture, learn new laws, try to get an education. What happens to refugees once they’re resettled in the U.S.?
Jaisang Sun: That’s an excellent question. Many refugees go through the resettlement processes, which have been streamlined as a result of the 1980 Refugee Act. Although different agencies do different things, they are resettled and they are asked to meet an economic self-sufficiency by getting a job very, very quickly upon their arrival to the United States.
Denzil Mohammed: Specifically within two weeks.
Jaisang Sun: Not necessarily two weeks. The data goes to show that most refugees, once resettled, are able to secure some form of employment within two weeks of arrival.
Denzil Mohammed: And that form of employment is generally not where their careers left off in their home countries, right? I mean cleaning, Dunkin Donuts …
Jaisang Sun: Right, you see doctors and professors and these people with professional degrees having to start their new American life as dishwashers and janitors and things that they have never really done before.
Denzil Mohammed: And so what happens when a family gets settled in the U.S.? Who determines where they go? Who are the ones financially helping them out?
Jaisang Sun: The initial journey that refugees make are partially funded by the State Department through this international organization called the International Organization of Migration. Each individual is generally given a loan of about $1,100 so that they can make the journey over here. And after six months of arrival, they are expected to pay back in full amounts, although interest free, of the money that they borrowed from the State Department.
Denzil Mohammed: Beyond that, the help that they receive in settling in, in finding a job, in learning a language, those are generally done by nonprofits, right?
Jaisang Sun: Most of those works are done by nonprofits, and for decades, nonprofits have been the backbone of strengthening refugee resettlement programs within the United States, and also selling our model of doing refugee resettlement overseas to those countries that are just starting to pick up what it means to resettle refugees.
Denzil Mohammed: So Jai, give us an overview of refugee policy in the U.S. It’s a fairly recent phenomenon, no? Or did it start off much earlier than we think?
Jaisang Sun: It did start off much earlier than we think. When most people think about refugee policies and refugee resettlement, we often jump to the 1980 Refugee Act, which is not entirely false, but some would actually argue that the history of refugee policies started a long time ago. Some argue it started as early as the Mexican Revolution, when many, many people were displaced as a result of the revolution who were then admitted to the United States as refugees or given permanent residency. But certainly the modern refugee policies have roots we can date back to World War II, wherein Jews and other minorities under Nazi persecution challenged the world with a massive global refugee crisis. The first instance of the United States’ policies on refugees was perhaps the presidential directive dated December 22, 1945, when President Truman authorized displaced persons and refugees to receive expedited admissions to the United States within the framework of the existing immigration laws at the time, which was largely based on the quota system of 1917. Now, this directive allowed some 40,000 displaced persons to enter the United States under the existing quota regulations. And it was considered a success on the very first instance of the specific refugee act. And then in 1948, the Displaced Persons Act was passed, and it was the very first specific refugee act after World War II to address nearly 7,000,000 displaced persons in Europe in the aftermath of World War II and allowed refugees to enter the United States within the quota system. Needless to say, because of the immigration laws at the time, particularly the quota system and its roots in racism and segregation, it only accepted refugees of certain national and ethnic backgrounds. Notwithstanding its biased selection of refugees though, this act did admit more than 350,000 displaced persons into the United States. In 1952, the Immigration Nationality Act reorganized the existing immigration and nationality laws, and although it maintained a quota system, it lacked the refugee–specific provisions. So it allowed structurally for other ad hoc programs, including the Azorean Refugee Act of 1958, the 1959-62 Cuban Refugee Program, the ‘65 Cuban airlift, the ‘62 Hong Kong Parole Program. All of these ad hoc programs were installed between 1952 and 1965. In 1965, amendments were made to the Immigration and Nationality Act that fast-tracked the adjustment of status for a lot of refugees that came in already in the United States. And then in 1980, the Refugee Act of 1980 was passed, overhauling a lot of these ad hoc refugee programs and streamlining a lot of the processes and administrative procedures to go about bringing in refugees on a more orderly fashion.
Denzil Mohammed: So describe for us the waves of refugees we’ve seen since 1980.
Jaisang Sun: Since 1980, we’ve definitely seen a wide variety of refugees who entered the United States that have strengthened our diversity and our commitment to humanitarianism in this country. But many of our refugee patterns follow a lot of the crises that happened around the world at the time. So in the eighties, we saw a lot more Cubans coming into specific corners of our country and a lot of Indochinese refugees entering through the Pacific coast of the United States. And since then, we have seen an increasing number of refugees from the continent of Africa and the Middle Eastern region.
Denzil Mohammed: And Eastern Europe as well, right?
Jaisang Sun: Absolutely.
Denzil Mohammed: So what you’re saying basically is that we’ve for a very long time accepted refugees, no matter where they are in the world. At one point, there was a quota system that would have limited those admissions to an extent. But what is the responsibility of countries to accept refugees? What is this rooted in?
Jaisang Sun: I would argue that it’s rooted in our commitment to humanitarian principles. The United States government signed a United Nations High Commission of Refugees Convention, and the Protocol to it, as early as the 1960s. So some may argue that we are simply following our promise to adhere to these international guidelines, which are deeply rooted in the humanitarian principles to never see crises like we did in the aftermath of World War I and World War II.
Denzil Mohammed: Let’s bring it into Massachusetts. And Massachusetts is perhaps not widely known as a popular place to settle refugees, but we certainly have, and will continue to. So give us some stats about refugees in Massachusetts.
Jaisang Sun: Absolutely. Since 2010, to Massachusetts a total of 14,573 refugees resettled. The top five countries from which refugees came are Iraq with 3,849 people, Bhutan with 2,725 people, Somalia with 1,924, Democratic Republic of Congo with 1,576 people and Burma with 1,128 people. And there are different destinations within the state of Massachusetts, but we were able to identify Worcester, Lowell, Lynn and Springfield to be the top destinations for these refugees.
Denzil Mohammed: What are some of the trends we see with refugees to the U.S.? You talked a little bit earlier about economic self-sufficiency. What are some of the trends, financial and otherwise, that you see with refugees?
Jaisang Sun: Sure. There are different interesting facts and statistics and trends on refugees. For example, on average, refugees have shown to naturalize faster than any other lawful permanent residents. Sixty-six percent of refugees who entered the U.S. during the period of 2000 to 2010 became naturalized citizens. There are other statistics that look at employment of refugees. Studies have shown that refugee men specifically are in the workforce in higher rates than their American counterparts. In terms of refugee economic self-sufficiency, we have to remember that because refugees’ resettlement goal is to meet that economic self-sufficiency, they’re encouraged very much to find jobs very fast. Despite the fact that they are forced or they are encouraged to find jobs very, very fast, there are a lot of studies that show that it takes, on average, about seven years for an average refugee to reach that economic self-sufficiency. And again, the path to getting that economic self-sufficiency is not always very flowery for most refugees.
Denzil Mohammed: Describe that to us, because obviously most Americans don’t have a sense of what refugees have gone through in their home countries while being displaced, after leaving their home countries. Can you just sort of guide us through in a very descriptive way, what it is like for refugee families once they settle here? What do they go through?
Jaisang Sun: Absolutely. For example, there are statistics that go to show that about 46 percent of refugees, upon their arrival, are on food stamps. Needless to say, when they are receiving public benefits, such as food stamps, they don’t have much. They don’t have family members here, they don’t have friends or other networks that are giving them cash, they don’t have food, they don’t have toys for the children. So, in most instances, they don’t have the educational or the language ability to seek opportunities that they may otherwise be completely eligible for. So every aspect of life is incredibly difficult for them. And not to mention, because they are refugees who have experienced varying degrees of persecution, many refugees suffer from either physical or mental disabilities, and many of them have shown to suffer from PTSD specifically. So refugee lives upon resettlement doesn’t revolve around success stories only.
Denzil Mohammed: And as distinct from other migrants, I know that for instance, this podcast is called JobMakers, and we look a lot at immigrant entrepreneurs, who have a higher than average rate of business generation, because I know for immigrants overall it’s about 11 percent, and for refugees it’s about 13 percent. So Jai, can you sort of speak generally as to the impact of refugee resettlement in the receiving country?
Jaisang Sun: Sure. Refugee resettlement, albeit it is different than immigration, but the impact to which refugees have on our country and our communities are very, very similar. They enrich our diversity. They populate our cities. They bring in jobs. They become entrepreneurs. They become our partners, our family members and they become Americans. So the impact refugees have on our country are not only very similar to immigrants, but the fact that they are able to overcome a lot of the hardships and the difficulties in making the journeys over here help us to …
Denzil Mohammed: I mean, I feel as though they almost enrich the resiliency of America.
Jaisang Sun: Absolutely, they do. Absolutely. They bring living examples of how to overcome these difficulties, how to be successful. And they provide a blueprint for our next generation to be this resilient generation of Americans who will lead our country and continue to help in the spirit of humanitarianism that we have been doing for the last decades.
Denzil Mohammed: Is there anything else you wanted to add about refugees? There’s so much misinformation around refugees. If there are a couple of things that you wish would really be cleared up in the American public discourse on refugees, what do you think they would be?
Jaisang Sun: Like you said, Denzil, there are so many information regarding refugees, immigrants, refugee resettlement, immigrant integration. There’s such a wealth of information online and outside. One thing that I hope that the general population will look closer into is, they’re feeding these unfounded claims on refugees and immigrants. For example, just like how we talked about in the beginning of the podcast, they are people just like you and me. They bring hopes and dreams to this country, and statistics have shown that they reach success. They don’t reach success illegally. They don’t reach success through crimes. They reach success because they have grit. They have a spirit of entrepreneurship with them just like you and me. So I hope that, when looking for information online, people are able to see the true intent, and the clear information that they can find that’s based on facts and empirical results.
Denzil Mohammed: And I imagine that you will be coming up with some more of these facts and empirical results in your role as Research Associate at The Immigrant Learning Center’s Public Education Institute, whose mission is to educate Americans on the contributions of immigrants and refugees, and really to inform the discourse with facts, with nuance, with stories. And we need to remind ourselves that this is a nation of immigrants, and at the same time, we’re the greatest economic and cultural powerhouse in the world. And we’re enriched by all the different cultures and viewpoints and perspectives that have informed where we are today. Jaisang Sun, thank you so much for joining us on JobMakers.
Jaisang Sun: Thank you.
Denzil Mohammed: JobMakers is a weekly podcast about immigrant entrepreneurship and contribution produced by Pioneer Institute, a think tank in Boston, and The Immigrant Learning Center of Malden, Massachusetts, a not-for-profit that gives immigrants a voice. Thank you for joining us for this week’s fascinating discussion on how immigrants and refugees, together with the U.S.-born, make a better U.S. If you know someone we should talk to, email denzil@jobmakerspodcast.org. Leave us a review on your favorite streaming service, too. I’m Denzil Mohammed. Join us next Thursday at noon for another JobMakers.